Tommy's #1 SHANIA TWAIN SuperSite Message Board

twainee · Senior Member

Tired of waiting

eilleen333 · Senior Member

I reckon she doesn't do covers since she is very capable of writing awesome songs herself. She will not release anything until she feels the time is right. All we can do is wait. And she did throw us a bone, but some of us can't reach it, since it landed in Las Vegas...

Butters · Guru

The thing is, I don't know if she is capable of writing awesome songs anymore. That is the big question. If she had all these amazing songs written (she has had 12 years to write them--a LONG time) then you would think she would have released a few of them. I mean "Shoes" was horrible. "Today is Your Day" was dreadful.

I think that releasing a cover album would be a smart move. She covers songs VERY well. She has such a unique style that she makes the songs her own. And that way she would not have to worry about her own material being judged-something that is obviously on her mind.

Logan33 · Senior Member

Butters, I feel like you are very pessimistic about Shania. "Shoes" and "Today Is Your Day" we're never meant to be singles. They were promotional singles. There is a difference. She never promoted them other than for the shows they were promoting. So how can you say she isn't capable of writing her own material?!?!?! She is very capable of writing her own material. I thought "Today Is Your Day" was a very well written song. Who cares if it wasn't a number one hit! I STILL listen to it..and it's over 2 years old! So to sit here and say that she is not capable of writing her own song is very moronic of you to state.

As for her releasing a new album, I feel that with her status as being the only singer ever to have every one of her studio albums (excluding greatest hit) to achieve diamond status, you have to expect greatness. People didn't just buy her albums for no reason. Yes, Mutt was a great producer, but there are also many other great producers too! David Foster isn't Shania's style, but it was a risk to go after him. So maybe not only does she feel like she doesn't have time (like she does now), I could see her being scared of her streak of album sales. I mean it would be hard to expect those types of sales in this day and age where singly downloading a single is more common. Not saying she can't sell 10,000,000 copies again, but it isn't very common now.

Tommy · Guru

When it comes down to it a song will be (or won't be) a hit based on its musical production, not because of its lyrics. So it doesn't really matter if Shania or any artist writes a good song. If it doesn't sound good, the song has no chance! That was the problem with "Shoes" and "Today Is Your Day." They didn't "sound" good at all. This is the biggest problem and fear Shania is facing when it comes to new music or a new album. The last thing she wants to do is release an entire album that sounds like crap and will be a total flop. Too bad Mutt is out of the picture.

codyandshania · Senior Member

Tommy wrote:
When it comes down to it a song will be (or won't be) a hit based on its musical production, not because of its lyrics. So it doesn't really matter if Shania or any artist writes a good song. If it doesn't sound good, the song has no chance! That was the problem with "Shoes" and "Today Is Your Day." They didn't "sound" good at all. This is the biggest problem and fear Shania is facing when it comes to new music or a new album. The last thing she wants to do is release an entire album that sounds like crap and will be a total flop. Too bad Mutt is out of the picture.

I agree Tommy. In my opinnion, "Shoes" and "Today Is Your Day" are very well written songs. My mom's favorite Shania song happens to be "Shoes" and because of me has listened to her entire collection time and time again. She doesn't care for the PRODUCTION on Today Is Your Day as she felt it was too slow. She perfers Shania's acoustic performance introduced on the first episode of "Why Not." Shania went back to that version in the "Still The One" shows, and after leaving opening night, my mom was pleased with the version of that song. If we are talking producers, Shania needs a producer that will be open to her own creativity, and David was not. (At least, it didn't seem that way from Why Not footage.) Nathan Chapman played part as producer on Today and Endless Love. I don't feel (from what has been publicly seen) that Nathan was very open to Shania either as way of arrangement. He was all ears when it became to her pitch, but it was Lionel's song, so that could be a reason also. It is no question Shania is capable of creating her own arrangements. She needs a side partner. (Dann Huff, Byron Galimore, Rick Rubin) Shania altered nearly every arrangement in her new show to better fit a new live experience and her new voice. It is most apparent in "Up!"

As far as waiting goes, it is painful, but waiting has never hurt any of us. As many say, "If it was easy to get to, it wouldn't be worth it." Shania is very particular, she knows best with her music. and I agree that it is harder than ever to make the sales figures she did in the 90's but not impossible. Just, alot harder even for an artist of her status.

codyandshania · Senior Member

Tommy wrote:
When it comes down to it a song will be (or won't be) a hit based on its musical production, not because of its lyrics. So it doesn't really matter if Shania or any artist writes a good song. If it doesn't sound good, the song has no chance! That was the problem with "Shoes" and "Today Is Your Day." They didn't "sound" good at all. This is the biggest problem and fear Shania is facing when it comes to new music or a new album. The last thing she wants to do is release an entire album that sounds like crap and will be a total flop. Too bad Mutt is out of the picture.

I agree Tommy. In my opinnion, "Shoes" and "Today Is Your Day" are very well written songs. My mom's favorite Shania song happens to be "Shoes" and because of me has listened to her entire collection time and time again. She doesn't care for the PRODUCTION on Today Is Your Day as she felt it was too slow. She perfers Shania's acoustic performance introduced on the first episode of "Why Not." Shania went back to that version in the "Still The One" shows, and after leaving opening night, my mom was pleased with the version of that song. If we are talking producers, Shania needs a producer that will be open to her own creativity, and David was not. (At least, it didn't seem that way from Why Not footage.) Nathan Chapman played part as producer on Today and Endless Love. I don't feel (from what has been publicly seen) that Nathan was very open to Shania either as way of arrangement. He was all ears when it became to her pitch, but it was Lionel's song, so that could be a reason also. It is no question Shania is capable of creating her own arrangements. She needs a side partner. (Dann Huff, Byron Galimore, Rick Rubin) Shania altered nearly every arrangement in her new show to better fit a new live experience and her new voice. It is most apparent in "Up!"

As far as waiting goes, it is painful, but waiting has never hurt any of us. As many say, "If it was easy to get to, it wouldn't be worth it." Shania is very particular, she knows best with her music. and I agree that it is harder than ever to make the sales figures she did in the 90's but not impossible. Just, alot harder even for an artist of her status.

Butters · Guru

Logan33 wrote:
Butters, I feel like you are very pessimistic about Shania. "Shoes" and "Today Is Your Day" we're never meant to be singles. They were promotional singles. There is a difference. She never promoted them other than for the shows they were promoting. So how can you say she isn't capable of writing her own material?!?!?! She is very capable of writing her own material. I thought "Today Is Your Day" was a very well written song. Who cares if it wasn't a number one hit! I STILL listen to it..and it's over 2 years old! So to sit here and say that she is not capable of writing her own song is very moronic of you to state.
As for her releasing a new album, I feel that with her status as being the only singer ever to have every one of her studio albums (excluding greatest hit) to achieve diamond status, you have to expect greatness. People didn't just buy her albums for no reason. Yes, Mutt was a great producer, but there are also many other great producers too! David Foster isn't Shania's style, but it was a risk to go after him. So maybe not only does she feel like she doesn't have time (like she does now), I could see her being scared of her streak of album sales. I mean it would be hard to expect those types of sales in this day and age where singly downloading a single is more common. Not saying she can't sell 10,000,000 copies again, but it isn't very common now.

Yes, I'm very pessimistic about Shania. Yada. Yada. Yada. Blah. Blah. Blah.

I don't love everything she has done. Blah. Blah. Blah.

And she has not proved that she is capable of writing her own material anymore. The proof would be her writing songs that are just as good as COO and TWIM and some of the songs on Up! She has not released any good material since 2002. Today Is Your Day is horrible. Glad that you enjoy it. To me it is basic and sappy and the video was horrendous.

So until she actually releases new music I stand by my claim that she is not capable of writing good material any longer. At least without Mutt to help her out.....

I know, I'm so evil.......

Butters · Guru

codyandshania wrote:
As far as waiting goes, it is painful, but waiting has never hurt any of us. As many say, "If it was easy to get to, it wouldn't be worth it." Shania is very particular, she knows best with her music. and I agree that it is harder than ever to make the sales figures she did in the 90's but not impossible. Just, alot harder even for an artist of her status.

This is a nice sentiment. But one that cannot exist in the reality we call real life. In real life aging singers who are approaching their 50's (despite how good she still looks) cannot just take their time and expect an audience to buy up their new music.

Sure she can release a new single and AC might play it. But it would not be this monster smash or huge hit most likely.

You cannot stay away for over a decade and be approaching AARP age and expect to blow away people with your music and stage a mega comeback. It is not realistic.

Shania had a window after Up! and she decided for many reasons not to utilize it.

Izy Twain · Senior Member

And here we go again. Me being a Twainiac and one of Shania's adoring fans, it's Shania she can do anything if she sets her mind to do it. Anybody can. I loved Today is your day. Was it a hit? No but it was still good and it was a song. And I agree with Tommy, Codyandshania as well as Logan33. All good points.

Vegas is a great kick in the door for her to get back out there and getting confortable being on stage and interacting with the fans.

I love Shania so so so much and I love everything she does. Shania can do it. I know she can. She just has to set her mind to it.

codyandshania · Senior Member

Butters wrote:
codyandshania wrote:
As far as waiting goes, it is painful, but waiting has never hurt any of us. As many say, "If it was easy to get to, it wouldn't be worth it." Shania is very particular, she knows best with her music. and I agree that it is harder than ever to make the sales figures she did in the 90's but not impossible. Just, alot harder even for an artist of her status.
This is a nice sentiment. But one that cannot exist in the reality we call real life. In real life aging singers who are approaching their 50's (despite how good she still looks) cannot just take their time and expect an audience to buy up their new music.
Sure she can release a new single and AC might play it. But it would not be this monster smash or huge hit most likely.
You cannot stay away for over a decade and be approaching AARP age and expect to blow away people with your music and stage a mega comeback. It is not realistic.
Shania had a window after Up! and she decided for many reasons not to utilize it.

Actualy, Reba McEntire who just aproached 58, released two albums in recent years. Two albums that did very well in fact. Her 2009 album Keep On Loving You produced the song Consider Me Gone which went #1, and was praised by many radio disc jockies and music critics as the song of her career. She has produced a few other #1 singles on COUNTRY RADIO. Keep On Loving You was certified GOLD. While that is not diamond status, it is product of great and worthy material. There are several artists well in their 40's and later that have done well in country music. I don't know if Shania will acheive the success that she once did. It can be analyzed with opinions, but honestly I don't expect her too. Fans of Shania as well as country music, just want new music. Whether it is as successful will be based mainly on production, promotion, and the label's willingness to back the record. As we know, a lot of today's music is put out due to sell and not pure talent. It was different in the 90's and early 2000's. It was all about craft and the artists ambitions to dig deep into their own work. Now, it is...who looks the best, how can we market a more mainstream sound, how can we change an artist to be more sufficent to "suit and tie" standards. It's a whole different ballgame. Shania even mentioned herself, she feels like she is a whole new artist in a whole new field of music. That is very true

Logan33 · Senior Member

Personally, I feel like in this day and age, it is hard for anyone to sale 10 million records worldwide, no matter how big you are or were. The thing with today's world of music, they're are so many more artists than there was 10 years ago. So many more unique artists with their own unique taste. Most people listen to multiple people. And sadly, a lot of times, people will only purchase the songs they like from the radio, instead of purchasing an album. That is where album sales are hard to come by. When Shania was selling 20 million records worldwide, iTunes wasn't even thought about. So in order to listen to a single on the radio that was big at that time, more than likely you would buy that artists album. It's crazy to think when "Party for Two" was released in 2004, it was Shania's first single to sell 100,000 downloads making it gold status. 2004 was kind of the breakout year for digital downloads. Now if we go 9 years later to 2013, we'll find that gold status on a single digitally downloaded is 500 thousand downloads, while platinum is 1 million downloads. These same numbers apply for albums purchased in today's world. Partly the reason why Shania was so successful in albums, was her unique style of instrumentals, lyrics, and long numbers of years in between releasing an album. A lot of times an artist will release an album every 2 years, sometimes every year, but they only will have 2 big hits, and a couple minor hits. The album will most likely reach platinum, depending on the artist. When Shania was at her top, she released an album every 2 years for her first 3 albums, and then she took the 4 year hiatus, keeping fans eager to buy her next album. Now over 10+ years later, she is currently on another album hiatus. So, we as fans are extremely eager to buy her new music, whenever it comes out. But, lets be honest, did she wait too long in this haitus to have the same kind of success? I think in order to achieve some success like all of her other albums, she will have too promote worldwide like on the "Up!" Promotional tour. That was the tour where she went around the world on numerous shows performing "I'm Gonna Getcha Good!" as the kick off single. Then she'll have to embark on a worldwide tour like she did on the "Up!" Tour. She's still known, but she isn't known like she was. She has faded out by choice, not because she wasn't good enough. She isn't a household name like once before. It will take a lot of things to get her back on both pop and country stations.

Butters · Guru

I feel that Reba is completely different artist than Shania. Shania has always sold the sex appeal and her looks along with her music. Whether that was good or bad is a subject for a different post. But because Shania is known for showing her skin. Being sexy. And heavily relying on her looks to sell her "package" I think it will be WAY harder for her as an older artist. Especially if she continues with the same type of fun music. She will have to dig deeper for her next album because she will be in her 50's. She can't be talking about tight skirts and having a bad hair day then.

And I don't agree with your assessment that artists and the music industry was all about production and the music in the 90's/early 2000's and that today it is all about looks. Shania, and one of the things that she was HEAVILY criticized for, HIGHLY relied on her looks to sell her music. Yes, she had talent. Loads of talent. But she used her looks in every possible way. Then there was Faith, Martina, Mindy McCready and so on and so on.........MANY female singers focused on a lot more than their music during that time period. It was about who looked the best back then as well. The guys did as well.

I'm not doubting that she will have a country hit or two if, IF, she releases new music. But she will be shocked if she thinks that she will sell like before. And perhaps that is not her goal. But it still will have to feel like a major comedown for someone who had such major success.

That is why Vegas feels so safe to her. Vegas shows do well. Most of the shows have an instant audience. She is not taking any risks.

Tanya · Guru

It looks like we go round and round. I wish there could be a way to stop making new threads like this one as it's been discussed a million times and always becomes a cause for arguments. And I wish that there were some new points of view but they are all the same so what's the point of creating this thread and to write things that were mentioned and argued about so many times? Who can answer the question WHY NOT make at least SOMETHING new - like new duet / cover etc. - for sure? Only Shania. Even a cover album will demand a lot of money to make it sound good so why then make it? Better make an album of original material already. Anyway, no one will give you 100% right answer for WHY NOT she... It will eventually happen or it won't happen at all. It seems we have no way to have any effect on her. Arguing is senseless.

Logan33 · Senior Member

But if you don't remember, Mutt produced "Shoes." Mutt's production was becoming to get repetitive anyways.

Terry · Veteran Member

Shania's success came from doing something different. When she released her albums, the country music industry was completely shocked. They didn't like what she was doing, but the general public absolutely loved it. If they didn't, then she would not have been as successful as she was. It was different, but in a good way. If she released a new album that sounded like her previous ones then it would be too bland. Nearly every country artist is incorporating elements of pop music into their songs which is what made Shania different at the time. In order to regain that success she had in the past, she needs to find a new way to push the envelope. She needs to do something that country radio would still play, but would completely shock the listeners. If she could do that, then she would have no problem at all.

codyandshania · Senior Member

Terry wrote:
Shania's success came from doing something different. When she released her albums, the country music industry was completely shocked. They didn't like what she was doing, but the general public absolutely loved it. If they didn't, then she would not have been as successful as she was. It was different, but in a good way. If she released a new album that sounded like her previous ones then it would be too bland. Nearly every country artist is incorporating elements of pop music into their songs which is what made Shania different at the time. In order to regain that success she had in the past, she needs to find a new way to push the envelope. She needs to do something that country radio would still play, but would completely shock the listeners. If she could do that, then she would have no problem at all.

Terry, I think you hit the nail on the head, with that. Only Shania knows, but it makes me wonder what could she do different. A lot, but leaves me curious.

eilleen333 · Senior Member

In fact, "Shoes" is a cover. They altered the lyrics and music arrangements a bit , but there is a very similar song by The Lynns.

I got to say that "Today" is not a very powerfull song, and I am not very exited about the music arrangements of the song. I prefer the acoustic versions of the song, though they were never officially recorded.

I think Shania is still capable of writing songs, but in a different way. Let's be honest, all her previous work was written with Mutt. We don't really know what a 'Shania-song' would sound like, since all her songs have been influenced either by Mutt or by other people ("Shania Twain" album).

I think there is no point in comparing her with other artists, I mean, she's just a different person. People compare me with my sisters, yeah, so what? I am not my sister, so I do things differently. Shania is not Reba, or Dolly Parton or Lady Gaga. She's just herself, and I think that is her power. She didn't let fame get into her head. She never got insane because of the pressure. And I think thats a valuable thing. You see a lot of artists go nuts because of the preasure that comes with fame. Take a look at Britney Spears....
I think Shania should take all the time she needs, eveni f that means that there will never be another album, and even if it means she'll 'disappear' forgood after the Las Vegas shows.

Yeah, I am looking forward to some new music too, but not if Shania isn't ready for it. I wouldn't be able to enjoy the best album ever if I knew she made it while she didn't want to, couldn't handle it, and if she'd been unhappy writing and recording it. It's like getting a drwaing from your kid. If it's really, really ugly, but they made it with love, it's the most beautiful thing ever and you'd frame it. If they painted you the 'Mona Lisa' while being forced into it, I wouldn't want it.

For me, it's not about the goal, it's about the road towards a certain point. I mean, being the best is nice, but not if you have to pay a price that's too high. It's just not worth it. And I am just not selfish enough to demand new music dispite the sacrifices people would have to make to record it.

Same with Alison Krauss... she suffered from some really bad migraines during the recording of her last album 'Paper Airplane'. I got migraines myself, and I would respect and understand it if she said she's not going to record again, because it gives her migraines. Who am I to demand her to 'suffer' so I can listen to some new music? That's just insane...

But that's just me. I don't need music to survive. Ok, it's a close call, but I reckon I'll live. Music means the world to me, but not over someone else's back.

Tommy · Guru

Good post "eilleen333."

Izy Twain · Senior Member

you summed it up beautifully eileen333 biggrin

codyandshania · Senior Member

eilleen333. Thank you for that. It made me realize a lot. I feel the same. Someone else's suffer is never worth a product for another person. As fans, we may get in over our heads alot (including myself) but I would NEVER in a million years, want Shania to do something for us, that she wasn't in the right position herself to do. She knows herself. Your reply, is the sensible answer to the problem many Shania fans seem to be facing. We just need to take a minute and breathe. Thank you for that, much appreciated! :)

eilleen333 · Senior Member

thank you guys, since English is not my native language it was kinda hard to put that down without giving a wrong impression of how I feel about it.

I know, it is hard sometimes, and sometimes I wish I could call her to tell her to just get into the studio :P . Like the Facebook picture with Shania and her guitar under that tree. I was hoping she's share the music with us already, but unfortunately... Maybe it's for the best. This way a new CD will be a total surprise without any 'sneek peaks' of the songs. But it is hard sometimes....

Like when she did not perform for years... I was so desperate to see her preform live... And Those 9 years were just way too long... But somehow it feels like I got my reward for my patience. I could go to the opening night, because I could get a few days away from school. The only period I could skip school was the first week of December, and when was opening night? Yup, the first week of december.

I have learned that patience sometimes is the key to getting what you want from others. My horse tought me that. As soon as I go too fast she just blocks and won't move a single foot. Really frustrating from time to time, but it has tought me to control myself and my emotions in a certain way.
And my heavy migraines have tought me to give myself all the time I need to get something done. Sometimes I need to learn things the hard way ;) .

Our patience will be rewared someday. And if not.... Then I'll probably spend the rest of my life sitting in a corner in a foetus position crying an feeling miserable ;) .

eilleen333 · Senior Member

Shoes ;)

Link to the video: (hope this works, since I am on my ipad).
youtu.be/yJDBerKoyaA

Tanya · Guru

eilleen333 wrote:
In fact, "Shoes" is a cover. They altered the lyrics and music arrangements a bit , but there is a very similar song by The Lynns.

What's the original title by The Lynns?

Tanya · Guru

Wow. Thank you! It's such a discovery!